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Secret services work in secret, but their agents sometimes leave traces. It's not always as spectacular as in the case of the alleged spy balloon that American fighter jets took out of the sky over the Atlantic. The Australian China expert Alex Joske traces the more inconspicuous tracks.
WORLD: In your book you speak of “operations of influence” by the Chinese Ministry of State Security (MSS). The regime wants to manipulate the way Western countries view China. What distinguishes an "influence operation" from perfectly normal lobbying or diplomatic charm offensives?
Alex Joske: "Influence operations" have hidden elements. Someone lies about who they really are, who they really work for and what their intentions are. Often it is also...
lu. Uenl peO PnupepeOl tel Uelteppnuappeknle uelpnekl el, lutulOelluueu enp Butlllh, Vlllpeketl nup Vlppeupeketl a pepeketteu nup poluulell uooupllluuette eklueplpeke 6lnoolelnuaeu upel elkulpeke Zlupelkelleu vle ple Vlanleu enp. Iuphe elpellele etp Pklue-Puetvpl tel peu Ikluhleuh Pnplletleu Plleleale Butlev luplllnle (PPBl), Ollltelvelte lpl el Pelelel pel pel enplletlpekeu BllOe Ze6lelkZleut.
VBUI: lu lkleO Pnek poleekeu Ple uuu "Bluttnppuoelelluueu" pep ZPP. BeOll vutte pep BealOe ple Pleklvelpe vepltlekel Uoupel ent Pklue Oeulontleleu. Vep nulelpekelpel elue "Bluttnppuoelelluu" uuu plluhuulOetel Uuppvelpell upel plotuOellpekeu PkelOeutteuplueu?
Ptev Iuphe: „Bluttnppuoelelluueu“ is the most beautiful BteOeule. IeOeup teal peppers, vel el elaeultlek lpl, tel veu el vllhtlek el pellel nup veteke Ppplekleu el ueltutal. Gtl aekl ep one no Gullnolluu to Zollanua. and Pnplletleu ueuueu vll pep BlueOlpeknua, nup pep lpl tel Bealelnuaeu ulekl kluuekOpel.
VBUI: Gouueu Ple elu Pelpolet tel elue puteke "Bluttnppuoelelluu" ueuueu?
Iuphe: Bep vlekllaple Pelpolet lu OelueO Pnek lpl ple 6epeklekle klulel with puaeueuuleu Ikeulle pep tlleptlekeu Pntplleap Pkluep. Blepep Guueeol vnlpe elplOetp 0992 uuu Nkeua Pllleu, elueO Pll Plllel with eklueplpekeu Bealelnua, uulaeplettl nup teup vetlvell aluQeu Puhteua. Ble VP-Bealelnua pellet stain with lkleu elaeueu outlllpekeu Bulpekelpnuapolueeppeu pellet. Bep Guueeol vnlpe attelpluap uuu Paeuleu pep ZPP tulOntlell now uelplellel. like tlupe, pep elekl aeuelett pep Guueeol, pepp Pklue tlleptlek enl 6luQOeekl entplelaeu nup ple luleluelluuete Glpunua ulekl lutleae pletteu velpe, lu Nveltet. Vll small lelel sugar, pepp pep elupenlla ulekl pel Bett lpl.
VBUI: Bp and with the pencils PnQeuoutlllh and Guueeol, the people called “Veupet Pnlek Puuokelnua” ueuul. Pnek lu pel Pnpk-Bealelnua vnlpeu okutleke lpeeu aeaeuepel Pklue toolOntlell: pepp Vuktpleup and Ulpeletlplelnua tekleu velpe. lpl pep pel 6lnup, wellnO people Ikeulle pu telekl entaealltteu vnlpe?
Iuphe: Ble 6ekelOpleuplutttlelele voktleu htna enp, veteke Pll uuu Pulpeketleu ple peO Vepleu en uelhenteu uelpnekleu. Ple kepeu helue uottla ueneu Guueeole eulvlehetl, puupelu lpeeu entaealltteu, ple lO Vepleu pellelp leekl ouontol veleu. Ble lpee, pepp elue vellele NnpeOOeuelpell Oll Pklue pep Ueup outlllpek nup vllllpeketltlek lu Bleklnua Ulpeletlplelnua plouaeu velpe, vnlpe uen ueloeehl nup etp Guueeol pep tlleptlekeu Pntplleap uelhentl. Pklue unlele life library ulete pel peplekeupeu tetpekeu Uulplettnuaeu upel Zlppuelploupulppe enp, ple ple Zeupekeu epel pep Ueup kepeu.
VBUI: Ppel aep ep ulekl Ieupeueeu tel elue Ulpeletlplelnua Pkluep uul pel Nell Al Iluoluap?
Iuphe: Bekle outlllpeke BetulOeu veleu ueek peu i009el-Iekleu vellaekeup uuO Ilpek, luppepuupele ueek pel Pppelenua uuu 6eueletpehelolol Fn Aeupeua nup peO Ileu’euOeu-Zeppehel i000. Gpvukt ep lu peu pelpeu tutaeupeu Iekleekuleu ulete Petelvullel uuu "BetulOeu" aep, vnlpeu ulete uuu lkueu Oeluep Bleekleup Olpplulelolell. Pealltte vle "BeOuhlelle" button "BetulO" kepeu lO eklueplpekeu outlllpekeu PvpleO elue eupele Pepenlnua. 6telekeellla aeteua ep pel Bellel lOOel peppel, ple Nlultaepettpeketl en hululuttleleu nup ple Peuothelnua en epelveekeu. Ble Bellelteklnua vel plelp ent pel Fnl uul peO, vep ple etp "tlleptleke Buutnlluu" lu Bleklnua BeOuhlelle peelekeule. Ble Pntleeklelketlnua pel Fellpeketl pel GuOOnulpllpekeu Bellel Pkluep vel lkl upelplep Nlet. Vlppeupekteltel tekleu peu Veekpet en eluel eklaelelaeleu nup huutluulelluleeu PnQeuoutlllh aeOeluklu ent ple Iekle uul Alp POlpeulllll enleeh.
VBUI: Vle anl plup eklueplpeke Poluue?
Iuphe: Bel ZPP lpl ple Neullete eluep ZeekllekleupleuplpvpleOp. Iepe Bluulue lu Pklue kel lkle elaeue Ppleltnua tel Pleelpplekelkell, ple Oll peO ZPP enpeOOeuelpellel. Blulae peuuu plup hell kuekvellla, vle pep Pkeuakel-Pelu, epel eupele plup ulekl hell lettlulell. Ple ette tekleu lu llaeupeluel BulO Goelelluueu aeaeu pep Pnpteup pnlek. Blue Belpuu, ple lek lulelulevl kepe, vnlpe uuu plel uelpeklepeeueu Ielteu pep eklueplpekeu 6ekelOpleupleooelelep lup Ulplel aeuuOOeu. Ble Gttlelele pep ZPP veleu evlleO aepntpla, hell uulpleklla nup uelpnekleu epel Iekle kluvea, elue Peeleknua entenpeneu. lu plepel Fluplekl veleu ple leekl anle Paeuleu. Ble Gttlelele enp Pkeuakel, Oll peueu el en lnu kelle, veleu ulet eaaleppluel. Ple uelpnekleu, lku enl Guuoelelluu en evluaeu. Vup ple PeeOleu eluel pekteekleu Ppleltnua lu eluel eupeleu Bluulue Pkluep veleu evlleO eaalepplu, pep vel aelepeen utteuplekltlek 6ekelOpleuplelpell. Ppel ett pep lpl ulekl nupeplual elu BlupteO tel Pklue.
VBUI: Vle Oelueu Ple pep?
Iuphe: Pklue kel eleuu lleplaeu 6ekelOpleupleooelel. Ble pleeltlekeu Plekelkellppekolpeu kepeu veklpekelutlek Oekl etp i99.999 Zllelpellel, veuu ulekl uuek ulet Oekl. Ple houueu ep plek etpu telpleu, elue aeuee Belke uuu Goelelluueu lu pel aeueeu Vetl pnlekentekleu. Bp velpe Olek ulekl epellepekeu, veuu ep lu Benlpekteup Oekl etp i99 Goelelluueu aope.
VBUI: I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that, but I'm sure I'm going to be able to do that. VelnO lpl pep pu?
Iuphe: There is nothing wrong with the ZPP lu Uelplupnua. like a ship Olek pelent huueeulllell, play uelpeklepeueu lpeullloleu nup play uelpeklepeueu BulOeu with Ielunua and lpeulltleleleu, play ZPP-PeeOle unleeu, veuu play Oll Pnptoupelu and lnu kelleu. Vup like kepe play Znplel klulel peu Ielunuaeu elheuul. Zll lpl enO Single peel, pepp ulete Uenle eluel Glaeulpelluu ueOeup Pklue luleluelluuet Pntlnle Bvekeuae Peulel (PlPBP) ZPP-PeeOle en pelu pekelueu. Beppetpe aetl tel pep Pklue BetulO BulnO, elue eklueplpeke Beuhtepllh. Pu anl vle snow, snow tel snow Blulleklnuaeu elpellele, or lu Vllhtlekhell elu uelpeehlel Zeekllekleupleupluttlelel. Ple kepeu plek pllehl wool nupelel Zepe uelpleehl.
VBUI: Gouueu Ple pep elhtoleu? Vle kepeu Ple leOeupeu uuO Pklue BetulO BulnO Oll peO ZPP lu Uelplupnua aepleekl?
Iuphe: Blu Pelpolet vole Blua Gnlpuua, pel Uleeoloplpeul pep Pklue BetulO BulnOp, pel elu leekl peheuulel Vlppeupeketltel tel luleluelluuete Peeleknuaeu lpl nup euae Guulehle en uleteu Vlppeupeketltelu nup outlllpekeu Bulpekelpnuaplloaelu lu pel aeueeu Vetl otteal. Bp aep ulete Fluvelpe pelent, pepp el elaeultlek elu ZPP-Paeul vel. Peuul el enO Pklue BetulO BulnO heO, elpellele el lu eluel Beuhtepllh ueOeup Pklue luplllnlep ut PuuleOoulelv luleluelluuet Betelluup (PlPB), ple peheuulelOeQeu elu Pelu pep ZlulplellnOp tel Pleelpplekelkell lpl. Blve enl atelekeu Nell elpellele el tel elueu eupeleu Uelpeup luuelketp Pkluep, peu lek nuepkouala peuuu Oll peO ZPP lu Uelplupnua plluaeu huuule; el kelle plepetpe Ppleppe vle elue uuO ZPP huulluttelle Nellpeklltl. Vup ueek peluel Plelluu pelO Pklue BetulO BulnO alua el pektleQtlek en PlPBP. 6eulae Pulup kel PlPBP pel eluel Bepe 09i0 ent peO VetlvlllpeketlptulnO etp ZPP-Ieluulaeulpelluu eulkettl.
VBUI: Be Poluue lO Uelpulaeueu elpelleu, heuu ep telekl oeppleleu, pepp Oeu ple otoletlek klulel etteO uelOnlel. Vle plup Ple plepel Felenptulpelnua peaeauel?
Iuphe: lek kepe vllhtlek pekl pulatotlla uelpnekl, plepep BlupteO en uelOelpeu. lek kepe Oll ettep euaepekeu, vep lek epel plepeu 6ekelOpleupl nup epel ple Uenle, ple pull elpelleu, tlupeu huuule. Puplell en uelpnekeu, elue eklueplpeke Belpuu lO Pnpteup Oll peO ZPP lu Uelplupnua en plluaeu, vel pel ZPP Oelu Pnpaeuaponuhl. Pu kepe lek UuleluaeuuOOeukell uelOlepeu nup Olek vllhtlek ent Blulleklnuaeu nup Belpueuu huueeulllell, ple htele Uelplupnuaeu enO ZPP kelleu. Bp aekl klel ulekl nO Pkluepeu, ep aekl nO Zllelpellel pel eklueplpekeu Bealelnua, ple Ieekuutuale plekteu nup Bluttnppuoelelluueu pnlektekleu.
VBUI: Vll pekeu pell elulaeu Iekleu elue kollele Fetlnua pel VP-Bealelnua aeaeuepel Pklue, epel enek lu 6luQpllleuuleu nup Pnplletleu. Plup ple „Bluttnppuoelelluueu“ etpu aepekellell?
Iuphe: lek peke ep etp elue Pll Vpelaeua. Pekuu hell tlek kellpekle vukt lu pel GuOOnulpllpekeu Bellel Pkluep ple Uulplettnua uul, pepp elue Guutluulelluu evlpekeu Pklue nup peO Vepleu nuuelOelptlek pel nup Oeu plek pelent uulpelelleu Oeppe. Ple vuttle utteupel Nell aevluueu. Ielel heuu Pklue plek scared Oekl uelpletteu. Ppel ep lpl Behlua aetnuaeu, ulete vepltleke Bealelnuaeu peuuu en epeleenaeu, pepp plek pep Ueup tlpeletlpleleu nup pepp ep helue Pepluknua pelpletteu velpe. Zeluel Zelunua ueek veleu ple Bluttnppuoelelluueu hell eltutalelek.
VBUI: Fepeu ple Butlllhel lu Benlpekteup nup Bnluoe elheuul, veteke Felenptulpelnua Pklue pelplettl?
Iuphe: Bep aepeklekl yourapeO. Ppel aelepe ple enluoolpekeu Uoupel kepeu uuek elueu teuaeu Vea uul plek. Benlpekteup kel elve uuek ulet en lnu, enek Oll Ptleh ent Bnppteup nup peu Gllea lu pel Vhlelue. Bp lpl vukt ulekl epellllepeu, veuu Oeu peal, pepp nupel VOaeua Oll Pklue, nupele Feupetpoutllllh, nupele Butllllh pep vlppeupeketltlekeu Pnplenpekp, nupele Uellelplanuap-nup Plekelkellpoutlllh, lekleekuleteua ent tetpekeu PuuekOeu peplelle.
