"Germans make decisions that cause climate protectionists to shake their heads worldwide"

WORLD: Mr Heilmann, you are part of a Bundestag delegation at the World Climate Conference. As an opposition politician, what can you actually do there?

Thomas Heilmann: Of course I can't make any commitments for Germany, but I can better understand the positions from all over the world. And I can also campaign for support for more climate action, particularly from representatives of other Christian Democratic and Conservative parties that I meet. The second largest interest group of Republicans in the US Congress is the climate group with 74 members so far. The Tories in Britain have a Conservative Environment Network. We have the climate union. It is good if we also define common answers in the conservative-bourgeois camp.

WORLD: So far, there have been no major results from this conference. Chancellor Olaf Scholz has promised that Germany will give 170 million euros to deal with climate damage in developing countries. What else can Germany do?

Heilmann: A year ago it was agreed in Glasgow that all countries would review their national climate targets. The federal government did not do that. We have been in line with our objectives in terms of reducing CO₂ in the field of industry and energy production. It is different in the areas of transport and buildings. We have an energy crisis. The federal government can't do anything about that, but the traffic light's answer is not to extend the life of nuclear power plants for two winters, but to reactivate coal-fired power plants. It was seriously considered to dock ships with diesel generators on the North Sea coast to keep the grid stable, instead of letting the Emsland nuclear power plant run longer. There is no international understanding for this: the Germans do not do their homework and make decisions that cause climate protectionists to shake their heads worldwide.

WORLD: The world climate conference is now probably the largest UN conference ever with more than 33,000 registrations this year. Is the financial and logistical effort worth it?

Heilmann: The climate conference is rightly being questioned critically. Unfortunately there is no alternative. The world must unite. And how do you intend to do that other than talk to each other? Among the participants are not only government officials. It's good that we talk to each other, internationally and in a coordinated manner, a lot of energy and CO₂ emissions can be saved through coordination. My biggest hope in the fight against climate change is with business. Many have far more ambitious plans than governments and are much more vigorous in implementing them. Without the power of the market economy we will not be able to master the challenges of climate change. It will definitely not work with the state economy.

WORLD: How do you view the demonstrators of the self-proclaimed "last generation" who are demanding climate protection measures with their blockades?

Heilmann: The "Last Generation" achieves exactly the opposite of what they want. "Fridays for Future" has achieved a lot because it has dramatically increased public support for additional efforts to achieve the climate goals. That also made it easier for politicians. The “Last Generation” polarizes the debate. That is why they do more harm to the fight against climate change than they help. Your protest is clearly unlawful and willfully a criminal offence.

WORLD: You were Senator for Justice in Berlin for four years. Do you agree with calls for preventive detention, as recently imposed in Bavaria?

Heilmann: In response to the preventive detention, there are now calls to go to Bavaria so that as many activists as possible can be imprisoned there. That's why I'm skeptical that preventive detention is an appropriate response. I'm afraid she's driving polarization. Legal clarifications, which define particularly serious statements such as damage to property and disability of persons providing assistance, seem more obvious to me. We have had the principle since the Romans that no punishment is imposed without prior law. I can certainly imagine other tightening of penalties in the area of ​​coercion, such as the Union has called for in the Bundestag. I'm not ruling anything out and I hope that the activists realize that they are totally damaging the actual debate.

WORLD: The founder and former chairman of the Climate Union, Heinrich Strößenreuther, expresses a great understanding of the climate sticker and even offered you legal aid.

Heilmann: In that case, Heinrich Strößenreuther once gave someone he knew personally 200 euros. But in principle there is a unanimous decision by the board of the KlimaUnion, also supported by Heinrich Strößenreuther, that we consider the actions of the "last generation" to be harmful, illegal and to be rejected. The climate crisis is too serious for us as a society to be turned against each other. We should react calmly and not bluster.

WORLD: How can it be that he gives the impression that protest and the concerns of the "last generation" are legitimate given the urgency of the issue?

Heilmann: Well, I think he was a bit misunderstood. He doesn't think the protests are legal and has always said so, but the concerns are legitimate. And insofar as his statements have been misunderstood, they are most certainly an individual opinion. The only thing that is correct about the statements of the "last generation" is that we have a dramatic problem worldwide. But we don't have a knowledge problem, but rather many conceptual and, above all, implementation problems. How does it actually work to align an entire world with climate change? The activists are demanding a 9-euro ticket. So I say: we already had that in Germany, then make the effort and get involved in politics. Wherever and with which party.

WORLD: The Synod of the Evangelical Church in Germany has decided to join the call for a speed limit of 120 km/h in the name of climate protection. Would that also be something for the Climate Union?

Heilmann: That's a suggestion that we're currently discussing with the members, in which form we think it's right. Here we come with an innovative proposal, but it is not finished yet. I personally can imagine that.