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"Karl Lauterbach can be expected to have an increased duty of care"

WORLD: Mr.

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"Karl Lauterbach can be expected to have an increased duty of care"

WORLD: Mr. Kuhle, should we just leave Twitter?

Konstantin Kuhle: I have a question about that. Did you get banned there?

WORLD: No, I only noticed on vacation how good it feels not to be there anymore. That's why I deactivated it. After two minutes, the debate there turns to a Hitler comparison, strangers insult you. How are you?

Kuhle: I've also done it on vacation in recent years. Just deleted the app from your phone. So I stopped checking in every five minutes, which I usually do. This leads to an exuberant or balanced personality. There are many people who are politically active, interested in politics and whose political discussions are determined by Twitter. It's all about what someone has blown out on Twitter.

But there are still people in society, and there are quite a few in Germany, who have absolutely nothing to do with Twitter. And now comes the hammer. That's more than the first group. So most people in Germany are not on Twitter. Most people don't even know exactly what the discussion culture is or what is special about Twitter.

And I call out to all these people at this point: That's a good thing! We don't have to let this weird platform define everything because it gets really cranky. I probably block a handful of people every day - simply because I don't feel like certain accusations and certain insinuations and insults.

WORLD: SPD General Secretary Kevin Kühnert has signed off there because he said it "blocks the view of reality". You said it puts you in a bad mood and you're more balanced without it. Then why are you there?

Kuhle: With Twitter, you can quickly get a message out into the world that will be noticed by many people. I do domestic and legal politics, and when something happens -- a terrorist attack, or some other security-related event -- it's easy for me to catch up on Twitter; because I also trust myself to decide: Is this a credible source or some idiot who spreads misinformation?

And at the same time, I can make a point in the debate myself. You are then part of a public debate, and that means you might get an interview request on a topic. It's easier than sending out a press release. They are sometimes read, but mostly ignored. You fight your way into a public debate with Twitter. But this mode is just as you say: flashier. And the more angular a position, the more likely it is to be noticed. And that can be unhealthy.

WORLD: In the "Arab Spring" social media offered the opportunity to circumvent government censorship. It was a liberation, a democratic tool. Later we saw how Donald Trump governs via Twitter and incites people to storm the Capitol.

Kuhle: Social media still poses a huge danger for dictatorial regimes. Courageous and great journalists like Natalie Amiri are sent videos via various channels, which they then publish on Twitter and thus draw worldwide attention to the protests of Iranian women against compulsory headscarves and for freedom and freedom democracy provides. And that, I think, is a prime example of how social media can have a beneficial effect on pro-democracy movements. In Iran we can see that right now.

We've also seen it in Turkey in the past, where President Erdogan also has a problem with Twitter. And I think that's also a reminder for us, because in Germany we sometimes have strange discussions about social media. I'll mention the subject of real names: There are politicians who demand that you have to register on social media with your ID so that you can trace exactly who wrote what. Yes, of course the Islamic Revolution in Iran would be happy if the women registered with real names.

In countries where democracy really needs to be defended and is at stake, social media can be seen to be truly beneficent. It is paradoxical that there are entrenched democracies such as the United States that get caught up in a maelstrom of debate over the impact of social media designed to do away with the institutions of liberal democracy. When the American president, who has lost an election, uses Twitter to call for the Capitol to be stormed, he is doing exactly what the enemies of democracy are doing, which is being fought by courageous demonstrators elsewhere.

WORLD: Bavaria's Prime Minister Markus Söder (CSU) has even called for services such as Telegram to be switched off. How do you think people come up with such an idea?

Kuhle: If Telegram were banned, which is probably not possible, there would immediately be the next medium through which people exchange information. And Telegram is also an example where you can see that members of the opposition are networking. The Russian opposition, for example, uses Telegram. And this discussion, which is then fueled by people like Markus Söder, is due to the fact that many people can no longer keep up with the speed at which this structural change in the public sphere is taking place in the social media sector.

If a politician then finds out that there are "Reichsbürger" and vegan cooks who spread their funny theses via Telegram and thinks about it, then I simply forbid it: Then that's a promise to solve things easily that people like , for whom this structural change in the public sphere is happening too quickly. It's nonsense, of course. We cannot ban modern communication media. We have to regulate them properly. There is the so-called Digital Services Act at European level, with which social media must submit to certain due diligence requirements. It will also have to be implemented in Germany.

This will cause serious headaches for people like Elon Musk. Even the richest person in the world can't just buy Twitter and then decide for themselves what's true and what's false. And what freedom of speech is and what is not. In a democracy, this must be done according to certain general rules of the game. And we can't ban platforms and ban opinions. But we do need due diligence, and that's what the European Union's Digital Services Act regulates. And I think that's good and I'm looking forward to the first talks between the Commission and Elon Musk.

WORLD: What do you recommend heavy user Karl Lauterbach (SPD), who declares war on Putin on Twitter or collects regulations at half past two in the night, which he announced to Markus Lanz a few hours earlier, when dealing with social media?

Kuhle: Karl Lauterbach is no longer in the opposition, but the federal health minister. He is not a simple parliamentarian, but part of the executive. For this reason, an increased duty of care must be expected of him. He has to be careful not to confuse people with his tweeting.

"7 Days, 7 Nights" is the political weekly with Frédéric Schwilden. Every Friday he welcomes a political guest to a slightly different weekly review. Subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Deezer, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music or via RSS feed, among others.

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